I think a Rules Cyclopedia version of C&C has a lot of potential. It's the type of add-on product that fair amount of consumers love, and many others find practical. However, a cyclopedia is more than just putting everything from the game into a single book. It's all the main rules, perhaps rules clarified or expanded from the original source, but such a book should not a kitchen sink of everything. Kitchen Sinks tend to get clogged with a bunch of stuff that people don't want to seperate and take care of. Core rules, expanded rules, monsters, treasures, appendicies, etc. can be good. But just creating a 500 page tome that has everything is nothing more than a curiosity that will be unusable, and otherwise never see the light of a gaming table. These type of books can have most of the rules, but shouldn't contain every single thing. Layout, and usability are key.
Love the idea of a cyclopedia select portions of PHB, CKG and settings books, monsters, and treasures, bits of the other books like the Engineering series. Keep it concise, don't put everything in it. Being a grog, throwback art would be phenomenal in such a tome.
Then if you want to expand upon it, perhaps a multi volume set, the first containing everything you need to play, and later volumes extending the set, perhaps each volume specialized in one area such as Vol 2 - Players Omnibus, Vol 3 - Castle Keepers Compendium (expanded rules, treasure, world & dungeon building), and Vol 4 - Codex of Creatures, make volumes for setttings Vol 5 - Airdhe, Vol 6 - Haunted Highlands, etc. Finally they could supplemented with Annuals thereafter, and when there is enough material to actually make a new volume, or an updated printing of earlier volumes with the expanded materials. These new printings would become an optional way to keep your active library trimmed down as you could leave the annuals aside.
I agree with Omote and Koralas. I'd sure like to see core rules and definitive rules for various scenarios. And I don't think it's a planned obsolescence at all. It should be to compliment the other books and bring them together. I'd like to see some of the mechanics of books like Amazing Adventures in the Rules Cyclopedia.
Well, my tongue in cheek comment regarding planned obsolesence is in regards to the Compendium essentially rendering the need for the other books moot over time. I have nothing against it at all.
No, not at all. I'm just sitting here running the weekly C&C game and we have a lot of books. It would be nice to access this material quickly! A cyclopedia might do the trick!
Interesting. That's some major food for thought. I never used the rules cyclopedia from AD&D and am only familiar with it in passing. Of course I was making up the rules by then and wasn't really using the books. :) I really don't even know how many pages this would be, but surely 300-500 I would think.
That's a great idea. Expand it into several very usable books. To echo Omote, 500 pages of condensed text would be little more than a giant paper weight. I tend to shy away from publishing things over 350 pages (hardcovers anyway) as I think the binding becomes suspect.
Jason and I talked about this as well, rolling some of his material into the C&C bandwagon. But with Koralas' idea, we could actually do a Seige Engine Cyclopedia..starseige, vicky, AA, tainted lands, harvesters.
Blacky the Blackball's "Dark Dungeons" was maybe even better than the original D&D Rules Cyclopedia, everything in one book, well-organized. What it can't be is the 2.5-3 books we have smooshed together with no reorganization or removal of text.
It also has to be a reference that can be used in any campaign, so it has to have every race and class, full equipment list, and all spells.
Aergraith, I agree. It would have to be very useful...and all of them, if we did multi-volume. The game is still fast as ligtening but there are alot of books!
I like the idea of the Siege Engine Cyclopedia. Something with standardized rules that can be used for any setting. It needs a name with a good ring to it like "Siege Core".
What about a players cyclopedia and then a CK's cyclopedia? It can get frustrating as a CK looking through numerous books for various magic items, new monsters, etc while as players, it would be great to see all of their race, class and other options compiled into one book.
I think we definately need a new way to manage monsters and spells for sure. I'm wrestling with 3 main books and then a bunch of little codices to find other bad dudes.
One of the coolest things I liked about 2nd Ed AD&D was the monster binders. Easy to update with insertable content. Also crossed my mind, barring something like that, to have an online central monster library. Could do the same with spells really...both the binder and central repository. If CKs have a WIFI connection at events, it would save them having to lug books around unless they are luddites like me and prefer the hardcopy route. (chuckles)
The online could have a look up function as well which would save time thumbing through pages.
I agree with the need to condense. It can be a bit of a pain having to have on hand many different books to find what you are looking for. To make life easier I have an excel file where for example you will find a list of every spell from the books I have. Each classes spell list is laidout by level listing the spell name, book, and page. There are a massive number of spells and some of them are duplicated in different books. Same with monsters and the stats do not alway match in both entries.
Due to this I would love some consolidation. Maybe putting all the spells in a single (tome or series) that resembles a spell book or something. Heck you could set up collections like that. Spells, Classes, Monsters, Rules, with each being it's own book.
I think both lordmalachdrim and Go0gleplex have great ideas and points. I'd love to have a condenced book for each subject matter, I.E. a complete spell compendium, race and class compendium, monster compendium, etc and would happily support such an endeavor. I, like Go0gleplex love my books but it is hard to carry them all or even remember in which book is such and such. Lordmalachdrim has shown great energy in building an excel file but I'd love to see something for the entire C&C community.
I mentioned the listing I built for my use and I forgot to offer it to others. If you want a copy just message me with your email address and I'll gladly share it. Please note it is only contains the books I own. Once the Mythos hard copies arrive I'll be adding them to the listing.
Actually the PORTAL does have a great deal of that information on there. I'm not sure I like how it is laid out, but it is up there. I like the concept of the binders, but they didn't seem to take off in the broader market. I'll check around, it might be worth looking at.
If you go the big book of spells (the Trollinomicon? lol ) it may also be helpful to add a runes section in it as well. Or go really unique and have all the spell caster classes preceding the appropriate spell section. (tongue in cheek thought there)
Have not really checked out the Portal since I am not really computer dependent. :)
Well that might be a better idea than the Cyclopedia. Just as series of Compendiums. Nice SlipCase for them. Even do them off size if we were inclined. Food for thought.
No argument about being useful Steve. :) But I don't have a laptop or tablet or such to access it, nor am I really comfortable with all them newfangled gadgets. lol I fully admit to being a bibliophile. ;)
I like the idea of several compendiums. A single giant book can be too unweildly, but a few moderate sized, consolidated resources would be great. You could do a series of 3:
1. Spell Compendium - all the spells, possibly runes also
2. Monster Compendium
3. Rules Compendium - PHB rules (minus spells) plus various rules from CKG etc. Although this one might not be needed depending on what going into the 7th printing PHB.
Planned obsolesence of the other books with this? ;)
I think a Rules Cyclopedia version of C&C has a lot of potential. It's the type of add-on product that fair amount of consumers love, and many others find practical. However, a cyclopedia is more than just putting everything from the game into a single book. It's all the main rules, perhaps rules clarified or expanded from the original source, but such a book should not a kitchen sink of everything. Kitchen Sinks tend to get clogged with a bunch of stuff that people don't want to seperate and take care of. Core rules, expanded rules, monsters, treasures, appendicies, etc. can be good. But just creating a 500 page tome that has everything is nothing more than a curiosity that will be unusable, and otherwise never see the light of a gaming table. These type of books can have most of the rules, but shouldn't contain every single thing. Layout, and usability are key.
~O
Love the idea of a cyclopedia select portions of PHB, CKG and settings books, monsters, and treasures, bits of the other books like the Engineering series. Keep it concise, don't put everything in it. Being a grog, throwback art would be phenomenal in such a tome.
Then if you want to expand upon it, perhaps a multi volume set, the first containing everything you need to play, and later volumes extending the set, perhaps each volume specialized in one area such as Vol 2 - Players Omnibus, Vol 3 - Castle Keepers Compendium (expanded rules, treasure, world & dungeon building), and Vol 4 - Codex of Creatures, make volumes for setttings Vol 5 - Airdhe, Vol 6 - Haunted Highlands, etc. Finally they could supplemented with Annuals thereafter, and when there is enough material to actually make a new volume, or an updated printing of earlier volumes with the expanded materials. These new printings would become an optional way to keep your active library trimmed down as you could leave the annuals aside.
I agree with Omote and Koralas. I'd sure like to see core rules and definitive rules for various scenarios. And I don't think it's a planned obsolescence at all. It should be to compliment the other books and bring them together. I'd like to see some of the mechanics of books like Amazing Adventures in the Rules Cyclopedia.
Well, my tongue in cheek comment regarding planned obsolesence is in regards to the Compendium essentially rendering the need for the other books moot over time. I have nothing against it at all.
No, I don't think so. I hope not at least~
No, not at all. I'm just sitting here running the weekly C&C game and we have a lot of books. It would be nice to access this material quickly! A cyclopedia might do the trick!
Omote,
Interesting. That's some major food for thought. I never used the rules cyclopedia from AD&D and am only familiar with it in passing. Of course I was making up the rules by then and wasn't really using the books. :) I really don't even know how many pages this would be, but surely 300-500 I would think.
Steve
Koralas,
That's a great idea. Expand it into several very usable books. To echo Omote, 500 pages of condensed text would be little more than a giant paper weight. I tend to shy away from publishing things over 350 pages (hardcovers anyway) as I think the binding becomes suspect.
Steve
Arcanechimera,
Jason and I talked about this as well, rolling some of his material into the C&C bandwagon. But with Koralas' idea, we could actually do a Seige Engine Cyclopedia..starseige, vicky, AA, tainted lands, harvesters.
Steve
Googleplex,
That would certainly be a risk. Though it might be an appeal to mechanics driven players. Of coure the PhB will always be in print. Its the flagship.
Steve
If Aaron Allston was still with us...
Blacky the Blackball's "Dark Dungeons" was maybe even better than the original D&D Rules Cyclopedia, everything in one book, well-organized. What it can't be is the 2.5-3 books we have smooshed together with no reorganization or removal of text.
It also has to be a reference that can be used in any campaign, so it has to have every race and class, full equipment list, and all spells.
Aergraith, I agree. It would have to be very useful...and all of them, if we did multi-volume. The game is still fast as ligtening but there are alot of books!
I like the idea of the Siege Engine Cyclopedia. Something with standardized rules that can be used for any setting. It needs a name with a good ring to it like "Siege Core".
So much of it is in the name, of that there is no doubt!
What about a players cyclopedia and then a CK's cyclopedia? It can get frustrating as a CK looking through numerous books for various magic items, new monsters, etc while as players, it would be great to see all of their race, class and other options compiled into one book.
I think we definately need a new way to manage monsters and spells for sure. I'm wrestling with 3 main books and then a bunch of little codices to find other bad dudes.
One of the coolest things I liked about 2nd Ed AD&D was the monster binders. Easy to update with insertable content. Also crossed my mind, barring something like that, to have an online central monster library. Could do the same with spells really...both the binder and central repository. If CKs have a WIFI connection at events, it would save them having to lug books around unless they are luddites like me and prefer the hardcopy route. (chuckles)
The online could have a look up function as well which would save time thumbing through pages.
I agree with the need to condense. It can be a bit of a pain having to have on hand many different books to find what you are looking for. To make life easier I have an excel file where for example you will find a list of every spell from the books I have. Each classes spell list is laidout by level listing the spell name, book, and page. There are a massive number of spells and some of them are duplicated in different books. Same with monsters and the stats do not alway match in both entries.
Due to this I would love some consolidation. Maybe putting all the spells in a single (tome or series) that resembles a spell book or something. Heck you could set up collections like that. Spells, Classes, Monsters, Rules, with each being it's own book.
I think both lordmalachdrim and Go0gleplex have great ideas and points. I'd love to have a condenced book for each subject matter, I.E. a complete spell compendium, race and class compendium, monster compendium, etc and would happily support such an endeavor. I, like Go0gleplex love my books but it is hard to carry them all or even remember in which book is such and such. Lordmalachdrim has shown great energy in building an excel file but I'd love to see something for the entire C&C community.
I mentioned the listing I built for my use and I forgot to offer it to others. If you want a copy just message me with your email address and I'll gladly share it. Please note it is only contains the books I own. Once the Mythos hard copies arrive I'll be adding them to the listing.
Googleplex,
Actually the PORTAL does have a great deal of that information on there. I'm not sure I like how it is laid out, but it is up there. I like the concept of the binders, but they didn't seem to take off in the broader market. I'll check around, it might be worth looking at.
lordmalachrim
I would love a giant Book of Spells! That would be most handy methinks! And I agree, it would allow us to clean up some of the entries etc.
Steve
If you go the big book of spells (the Trollinomicon? lol ) it may also be helpful to add a runes section in it as well. Or go really unique and have all the spell caster classes preceding the appropriate spell section. (tongue in cheek thought there)
Have not really checked out the Portal since I am not really computer dependent. :)
Dbush
Well that might be a better idea than the Cyclopedia. Just as series of Compendiums. Nice SlipCase for them. Even do them off size if we were inclined. Food for thought.
The Portal is a pretty useful tool. We have several people at out table that use it. That said, it could use some improvements!
No argument about being useful Steve. :) But I don't have a laptop or tablet or such to access it, nor am I really comfortable with all them newfangled gadgets. lol I fully admit to being a bibliophile. ;)
Aaron Allston, I have not heard that name since Champions.... Is he still writing.. his books were pretty good.
I like the idea of several compendiums. A single giant book can be too unweildly, but a few moderate sized, consolidated resources would be great. You could do a series of 3:
1. Spell Compendium - all the spells, possibly runes also
2. Monster Compendium
3. Rules Compendium - PHB rules (minus spells) plus various rules from CKG etc. Although this one might not be needed depending on what going into the 7th printing PHB.
I like this approach, and if they are indexed well then I could see myself using them quite a bit!
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